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Cam
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PostSubject: season 2 draft   Tue 24 Mar 2009 - 20:32

I am looking for ideas, and input on the proposal to institute a season 2 draft. The idea would be to allow starter teams to get a few star player points. Initially i thought it wold be cool to randomize some star player skills like block, dodge, etc... and then have a draft. Once you got a skill it could then be applied to any player on your team that can take that kind of skill.
I really dont know anything about drafts though, so im not sure how the mechanics would work. I also dont know how you can do this without the more powerful teams becoming even more powerful, as they would also be included in the draft.
Further to the topic Ryan posted, do you guys think that inducements are enough to level the field for the expansion teams?
I would also be interested in hearing any other ideas on how to bring the new teams up to speed.
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Lord_stash
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 3:07

I had the idea of maybe doing a trade. Trades must be done on a 1 for 1 basis and done for equal value, and take up a similar player slot (i.e. trade a 0-4 for a 0-4 etc).

As for a draft what about drafting a $90k player $80k player etc. make them up yourself (I.e. +1 AG, pass, and block or other combinations) and they count as a basic member of the team (i.e. they become a rat when skaven pics them, etc). Give the poorest performing coach first pic and work your way up. Different skill combinations would benefit different teams thus the intrigue of the draft.
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Gluvzer
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 13:58

For something like building the player, I think you would have to increase the cost. The luck factor involved with leveling means sometimes you don't get what you want. Therefore there should be a premium for getting what you want.
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Lord_stash
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 16:15

The premium is that you sucked balls in the season. When I said 'you' make the players I meant you as in you and Cam. I dont mean big combinations I mean stuff like block/tackle, catch/safe throw. etc
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Coach Kallidon
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 16:31

I am a little worried about bringing in another batch of new guys and then telling them they have 600k in inducements when they go up against the league champ. It'll probably be enough to figure out what the hell is going on with your team period and not worrying about controlling the super star player worth 300K. On the other hand, after Scott handed me ass I made sure I figured out the rules damn fast, and there's enough information out there that it didn't take long to figure out.

You know what we could do is have a "spring training" or "pre-season" for the teams that dont make the play-offs. The teams that didn't make the playoffs can play a couple games, and then depending on who does the worst/best, they could participate in a draft of sorts? Youd still be motivated to play good because you'll earn star player points and gold, but at the same time if you have the worst record over 2 or 3 games you'll have you first choice in the draft.. ? Something like that maybe?

I'm thinking that any of the teams that make the playoffs will already be getting the benefit of the extra games and potentially extra cash (I believe most playoff games in other leagues grant double money for the games) so they wont mind being excluded from spring training. Unless they decide to start a new team then maybe they could participate in spring training?

That being said has any of the other online leagues instituted a draft before?

Just brainstorming some ideas and throwing alot out there. Alot of it might be crap but wanted to the gears turning for discussion.
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Cam
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 25 Mar 2009 - 23:42

I really like the spring [or pre-season] training camp. It is a little unfair that the top teams get to play extra games. I like the whole idea Robyn, i think we may have a winner. As to other leagues instituting a draft, i am not sure. I know i read somewhere that certain two day tournaments have a draft at the start of the second day, but as far as leagues go im not sure. At any rate, i think that it would be fun, and helpful.
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Coach Killemall
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 1 Apr 2009 - 17:50

Gents,

I thought I would get my two cents in now that this post is long dead. Anyhow, I like the idea of the pre-season training camp as well. I would suggest that you try to get as many teams into playoffs as feasible (4-8 based on the numbers of players) as this will keep the enthusiasm high if there is still a chance of an upset. If the playoff are pretty inclusive and players figure out halfway through the season that they are statistically out of the play-offs this may result in a loss of enthusiasm.

Secondly I think teams with the better records should receive some additional benefit in playoffs for their superior play during the regular season. I don't think this should be to remove any "inducements" as it will not always necessarily be the most expensive team that wins (they could for instance have 3 star players get killed on the last match of the season) so I would consider some other form of benefit. Similar to 40k, mabey the 1st place gets 200k of inducements, 2nd place gets 100k etc. or first place gets additional re-rolls, cheerleasers, apothecary...

I like the thought of the draft, I think it would be a blast. Presumably we can figure out some kind of formula that would allow new teams to get the first picks. I like the thought that the commissionaries pre determine certain skill sets which a coach could bid on for eligible players. One thought is that this may give a disproportionatly big advantage to the draft participants as they will be able to buy skills such as block for big things which, as we know, are extremely hard to get. Additionally, they would be able to buy skills for players that are only available on doubles. I don't know how to address this, I just thought I should raise it as an issue.

Cheers

Killemall
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Clockwork
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PostSubject: Thoughts   Mon 13 Apr 2009 - 15:54

I just thought I'd throw out some thought on this subject:

1) If teams that were involved in Season 1 are involved in the Season 2 preseason, that will presumably keep them relatively in line (from a SPP perspective) with the teams that are involved in playoffs. However, new teams will still be significantly behind.

2) Would it make sense to start new teams out at an equal level with the other teams by giving them SPP's to spend (in the same way they are normally spent) equal to the Season 1 team that has the least SPP's?


Sam
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Cam
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Mon 13 Apr 2009 - 16:05

I think that i have come to a final solution to the problem of equality. New players will take place in the pre-season, and then based on their team value, will earn a spot in the draft. Once the new season starts up i am then going to make divisions depending on how many players we have. New players will all go into the same division(s) so that they are only playing against people who are at their level. They will only have to face veteran teams in the playoffs, at which point they should be almost at the same level once deaths and injuries are taken into account.

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Gluvzer
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Mon 13 Apr 2009 - 16:22

I just want to throw two cents in here.

I do like the idea of divisons. But I do not like the idea of not being able to play everyone in a season. Maybe idea's of having to play everyone in your division at least once or twice and then others with whover you want is worth checking into. Remember, newer and struggling teams get inducements to pump them up for those big games and the coaches should be able to test there mettle against some league power house teams (if they gotz da gutz).
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Cam
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Mon 13 Apr 2009 - 16:27

The idea for the noob division came from what the guys over at BRAWL are doing (they call it the panzy division i think). Their league is really big, over 30 guys, and so individual players will only be able to play the people in their division until finals (im sure Robyn will correct me if im wrong here). Given, that amounts to at least 6 games against all different opponents though. If you guys really dont want to do it that way, then the new coaches will just have to rely on those pre season games and the draft.

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pantaloon3000
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Tue 14 Apr 2009 - 23:26

I think that having the new players participating in the preseason games is enough . . . I have been playing Blood Bowl for many years and I have seen how the tides can turn by getting some good rolls . . . I have seen teams that have lost every game in the season end up winning in the playoffs . . . sure the skills are great when having an advanced team but when you start getting too high in advancements the costs of maintaining your team go up as well, there is a certain peak that a team will reach before they basically level off and allow lower teams to catch up . . . many strange things can happen in the game of Blood Bowl . . . maybe allowing the Special Play cards to the Inducements will help the lower teams out a bit . . . I have always found them to be a lot of fun.

Well that is my 2 cents
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pantaloon3000
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 15 Apr 2009 - 7:49

Here is another idea . . . start the new teams with 1.5 mil instead of the normal 1 . . . this should help the new teams build faster . . . or maybe give a certain amount of free MVP's to the new teams to help them build on their skills quicker.
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Coach Kallidon
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 15 Apr 2009 - 9:20

There are some teams form the first season though that didn't get up to the 1.5 million mark.

Truthfully, I think that Bloodbowl is balanced really, really well.. especially for the whole weak teams going up against strong teams thing. I know over at Brawl theres a Norse team thats 2-6 this season, and his team is worth 1.8. Everytime he's played, his opponents has been getting enough inducements to take wizards a powerful character which is suually enough to turn the tide.. especially wizards.. *cringe*

I think if we have the pre-season/spring training for the new players, just so they get the basics of the game down, that should be enough of a boost that they'll be able to understand what the star players do, how wizards, halfing chefs, etc. work, and of course give them a few extra star player points to start out with.

I dont think teams should be given star players points or extra money though, unless they've earned it! Again, looking at a few of the teams in our league this season and they aren't to far above the starting point after a couple untimely deaths and a rough start.

Thats just my thoughts though, and I could definitely be in the minority. Whatever we try, if things get a bit out of whack, we could always have a full league wipe or restart next time around..
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Gluvzer
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 15 Apr 2009 - 12:53

I'm going to have to agree with Robyn on this one. I think inducements are a effective equalizer. And like Ryan F. pointed out, alot can change for a team in a season. There will be definate highs and lows and although I haven't played nearly as much as him I do believe teams will reach a leveling off peak. I think I'm there for sure. My team is worth A LOT of money but are not getting any better, and on a losing streak (to be broken tonight against the Cannibals).

I looked into some draft stuff, and the only things I could find were that they were used at weekend tournaments were SSP's were not used at all. Players showed up with their purchased team and they would have a random draft of skill sets and stat upgrades for the coaches to apply to players. Then halfway through the tourny they would have another draft with order of worst to best teams for more skill sets and attributes to apply.
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Cam
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 15 Apr 2009 - 14:40

Do you guys even think a draft is necessary then? I thought it might be fun new coaches, and if we dont have a beginners division then it might really help.

As to special play cards, we will not use them. I believe this is something that Ryan and i agree on. Most leagues dont allow them because they can be really problematic.

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pantaloon3000
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Wed 15 Apr 2009 - 22:24

Well It really doesn't matter to me how the new teams start out . . . I just wanna get in there and beat in some heads, the game is a blast to play and I intend to have lots of fun.
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Cam
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PostSubject: Re: season 2 draft   Sat 18 Apr 2009 - 18:41

Some potential issues have been brought to my attention, and i wanted to let you guys know that despite my wishes this is not settled yet. I apologize for so much indecision, but this is our first time running a BB league, so things are a little rocky.

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